Agressively masculine, quasi-historical bullshit.

Pagan morality meets Christian morality in a mess of a message that makes zero sense and singularly fails to make the characters anything close to believable or sympathetic.

Were they fighting to defend their families (and HOT WIVES) and their children (who, the introduction is at pains to point out, they send away at age 7 and cast off a hill if they're deformed or weak) or some bizarre ideal of freedom and democracy? If it's the former then its undermined by pretty much everything we're told about the Spartans in the movie and if it's the latter then it completely and utterly contradicts the final message (since the whole point of the famous quote is that they did it out of duty and honour, not for some higher cause).

Are we supposed to hate the Persians because they're amoral and depraved? If so, then why is the main protagonist so motivated by his HOT WIFE that he has to prove his masculinity by having sex with her before he goes off to battle? Or are they bad guys cos they're brown or something? Maybe it's because of what they did to the villagers? Oh, but apparently it's ok to do almost the exact same thing to Persian soldiers...

The story of the sacrifice of the Spartans at Thermopylae is already an inspiring one, and it taps into a visceral, pagan desire in human beings to respect honour and courage and definace in the face of overwhelming odds. I have no idea if Frank Miller/the studio felt like a modern American audience copuldn't handle something basic like that, but for some reason they tagged on a Christian morality and completely muddled the message. I was left confused and wondering why the hell I should give a damn.

Nice fight scenes though.

That should have been an expected problem fro the film, after all the Spartans were fairly disgusting and highly militaristic and had a near worship of their own view of perfection. Kinda hard to make guys like that the moral good guys.

Just goes to show that Christian moral fails as a tag on "these are the good dudes" formula.

That movie had a Christian message?

The only big problem I had with the movie was that they did not include the Oracle at Delphi who, according to legend, basicly told Leonidas that Sparta was doomed to fall to the Persians unless one of the two kings (yes, there were two) died on the field of battle. That, not Spartan pride, was the reason they stayed at Thermopylae even after the Persians flanked them.

Well, not having seen the film I can't answer for it, that will be Thommy's work I guess. But the thing is this, it's easy to sneak in moral messages with say a Christian tinge to them and most western viwers won't be any wiser, only if you know what to look for and has a reference to compare with will the message stand out. We are today so steeped in Christian morality that we don't even think of it as being such most of the time.

In 480BC when historically this last stand took place, The morality was far different from now, especially in a culrure as hard and inhuman as the Spartan, giving them a Christian justuification and giving their goal a moral tinge beyond trying to survive would be idotic, and sadly it looks from this and other reviews to be exactly what they have done.

Well you mentioned "knowing what to look for". Could it be that we see Christian morality because we are looking for it? I am sure you can find Christian morality in almost every movie out there, that doesn't mean the the film-makers intended it to be there.

Well, it could be but I'm doubtful that it is. What I meant by "knowing what to look for" is in a way knowing about what a specifik period was about, like the era the Spartans lived in for instance, while many of Chiristianities moral messages are from other sources, there are a few that are later creations and that fit badly in BC480.

Besides the whole issue was the film adding a moral, and humanitarian side to the Spartans that they had very little of in reality, not me "yelling at Christianity" If you want that, look me up on MSN

I have read the graphic novel this is based on and just like with Sin City it's close to that story, it is however a take on history and one that has been made simpler to accept by adding certain things to the Spartans. This is in a way Historical Science-fiction.

When you see the movie, I would love to hear what you think the Christian message is, or what Darkness thinks it is. Not trying to argue or anything, I just didn't see it anywhere in the film so I would like to know. It could be perspective, or it could be me missing it because I am too busy thinking about how much I want to eat red meat and fight somebody. 300 seems to have that affect on guys.

And by all means yell at Christianity. They take themselves way to seriously at times.

Ok, first: the difference between 'pagan morality' and 'Christian morality' - note, I'm not saying there' s a "Christian message" in 300, but that the morality that the characters (at times) espouse is a recognisably Christian one. There's no "Jesus is the Son of God" stuff or anything, but they do do things that fit with what Jesus said. I'll explain...

Pagans (an all-encompasing term I'm using to describe most ancient warrior clutures such as the Vikings, the Britons, the Romans and, most importantly, the Ancient Greeks) believed that glory, honour and fame were all that mattered. If you read any Greek tragedy, you'll see immediatley that the "heroes" are more concerned with their own fame, with dying good, honourable deaths and with being remembered forever. They slaughter their enemies, steal, rape, enslave, go to any lengths just for the glory of their own name and the name of their people. A prime example of this kind of character is Achilles - his representation in the movie 'Troy' is actually pretty accurate to the mythology: his chief concern is being known for all time as the greatest warrior who ever lived. He knows he'll die and that his men will die with him, but if he can 'live forever' then that's fine. This is the morality of the real, historical Spartans, as exemplified in 300 by the way they send their children away at age 7 and cast them off a mountain if they're deformed. It appears again when the captain character (whose name escapes me) tells the King his son is coming with them because he has "other sons to replace him" and when the King sends the deformed would-be warrior (again, name escapes me...) away because he's simply no use to him. Pagan morality doesn't recognise pity or mercy - it's all about honour, vengeance and glorious death in battle (as well as plenty of good, old-fashioned sex).

Christian morality is the exact opposite. It's the stuff that our western culture today recognises as 'good'. Sacrficing yourself to save others, defending justice and freedom at the cost of all else, despising slavery and rape in all their forms. A character like this kills only because he needs to and even then it has a terrible effect on him. It's about "loving thy neighbour" and forgiving sins, it's about mercy and compassion. In 300, this philosophy appears in almost everything King Leonidas says about Sparta and about his family. It appears when the captain character mourns for his dead son even after assuring his King that he could be replaced. It shows up, paradoxically, when Xerxes shows pity on the deformed guy but then buys his loyalty with sex. Christian morality is also all about not having lots of meaningless sex - this is where the contrast between the 'pure' Spartans and the 'depraved' Persians is most obviously Christianised. I mean, the actor who portrays Xerxes pretty much plays the character gay.

Now, are you seeing the contradiction?

Leonidas says that Spartans must be hard, and not have weak emotions. He boasts about how he was sent away to fight for his life and then "returned a king" (Pagan). Yet, at the same time, he fears for the fate of his son and wife (Christian).

The captains says his son can fight because he is, essentially, expendable (Pagan), yet when the son is killed it's supposed to be a poingnant moment where the father's grief is tangible (Christian).

Leonidas fears the loss of his reputation and the name of Sparta when Xerxes threatens to stamp out any record of the city's existence (Pagan), yet every other sentiment Leonidas expresses is about fear for his family and his people (Christian). Did Xerxes threat mean nothing to him (as everything else that happened would have you believe)? If so, why was the scene made so significant?

Leonidas apparently hates slavery (Christian), even though his philosophy is that "only the strong survive" (Pagan). It's a historical fact that Spartans, like almost all ancient cultures, kept slaves and also that slaves fought beside them at Thermopylae, but that's by the by.

The Spartans are horrified at the fate of the villagers who the Persians nail to a tree and Leonidas even cradles a dying child in his arms (Christian), yet those same Spartans happily use the corpses of the Persians to build their wall - presumabley out of revenge (Pagan).

Most of the Spartans assume they will die and seem fairly comfortable with it (Pagan), but then every loss of a significant character is treated as a tragedy and, at one point, Leonidas even hopes his 300 will actually survive (Christian).

There's probably a whole bunch more I don't remember - those are just off the top of my head.

The thing is, I wanted to root for these guys. I wanted 2 hours that felt like the Ride of the Rohirrim on Minas Tirith in Return of the King, but instead I had no idea what they were even fighting for. On the one hand, they were acting like they were a band of warriors off to sell their lives in the name of glory, honour and duty to the harsh ideals of Sparta, but on the other they were just poor, outumbered souls who were doing it for their wives and kids.

The problem is, I believe, that the story is essentially about Pagan morality - it's a story of supreme honour. Of men who give their lives simply because that's what they were born to do - "here by Spartan law we lie" as the famous quote goes. It's about a glorious, hopeless last stand and men who's names live forever because of what they did. But that doesn't fit with modern, Christian, morality - the story was twisted and bent and shaped to fit into an idea of 'virtue' that wasn't even invented until 500 years after these guys died so that modern audiences could go "aww, he loves his wife...isn't that bit with the necklace nice?"

Hell, that was the worst bit - do you know what Leonidas is actually recorded as saying to his wife when he left? She asked "what would you have me do?" and he replied, "Marry well and have strong sons." His wife is irrelevant to the story (if only because Ancient Greek society considered women chattel anyway) but she gets tacked on her so we can have a hot woman in revealing outfits and so that horny adolescents can identify with the lead character.

It's a bowlderisation of an incredible story, quite frankly. It entirely misses the mark because it doesn't know what message its's trying to deliver and for me, at least, it really hurt the story. I couldn't invest in a single one of the characters because they were such a mess of conflicting messages.

Here's the reason it's such a mess, btw:

"The Spartans were a paradoxical people. They were the biggest slave owners in Greece. But at the same time, Spartan women had an unusual level of rights. It's a paradox that they were a bunch of people who in many ways were fascist, but they were the bulwark against the fall of democracy. ... I didn't want to render Sparta in overly accurate terms, because ultimately I do want you to root for the Spartans. I couldn't show them being quite as cruel as they were. I made them as cruel as I thought a modern audience could stand." - Frank Miller

Not a huge problem in itself, but you can see the problem and you can see why I've thought about this so much: I'm looking for that 'curelty' - those pagan values - because that's what I know the historical story is really about. Miller and the film makers have made them likable, modern heroes though. So all those (historically accurate) pagan moral elements that creep through really stand out for me whereas I imagine almost everyone else is happy with them having Christian morals instead.